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dago

Thomas1

Senior Member
polszczyzna warszawska
I was wondering who do you refer to calling someone a dago?

I'm especially interrested if thre are any local differences in use of this word and also would like to know if you find it offensive and disparaging?

If you know of any similar words to the one in query, please include it in your post.

Any comments will be more than welcome. 👁 Smile :)


Thanks in advance,
Thomas
According to Merriam-Webster: usually disparaging : a person of Italian or Spanish birth or descent

I haven't heard this word in many years, so either it's used a lot more where i grew up (Chicago), or it's not used very often anymore. I think it's sort of racist though, so I wouldn't use it.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Rob
mnzrob's answer will do for me too.
I haven't heard dago for a very long time, it's only use is to be deliberately disparaging.
Therefore, would you say it's not used because it is obsolete or it is a kind of word that people don't use since it's quite offensive?
Dago (from the name Diego, apparently) was once a common, disparaging name for Italians in Australia.

It's been out of fashion for many years.
I suspect that dago is not obsolete.
I would not surprise me to find that it is still used by those who choose to be deliberately offensive.
Brioche said:
Dago (from the name Diego, apparently) was once a common, disparaging name for Italians in Australia.

It's been out of fashion for many years.
Was/is it used as a disparaging name only for Italians or for, say, Hispanic people too?
Thomas1 said:
Was/is it used onle as a disparaging name only for Italians or for, say, Hispanic people too?

In the 50s and 60s there was sizable influx of Italian immigrants to Australia, and at that time they were called Dagos. They were the largest group of non-English speaking immigrants.

Australia has never had large numbers of immigrants from Spain, or other Spanish-speaking countries so we didn't need a name for them.
Dago, as I understand it, is a derogatory term refering only to Italians.
Sooner or later the thought police will track me down for all the strange things I look up in the dictionary.
Dago was originally South-Western US for Spaniard, thence to Portugese and Italian. Believed to be a corruption of Diego.

I feel, like river, that it is now mainly Italian. I wonder did it acquire a "mainly Italian" sense during WWII?
river said:
Dago, as I understand it, is a derogatory term refering only to Italians.
This is exactly what I want to know. I looked up the word in a few dictionaries and almost each gives the same meaning but the people whom the term is addressed to are of different nationalities, so I thought there must have been local differences.


Question to all:
If you were to use the term, which I doubt, of course; would you use it only with reference to Italians?
I'm surprised by Panj's information, though I knew the term was a shortened form of Diego-- I assumed it was a term of European origin because they seem to use it for both Spanish and Italian people. Like River, I've only ever heard it used as a synonym for Wop in AE-- the insulting term for non-Italian dagoes is spic, derived from Hispanic.

Both dago and wop are used to insult or speak disparagingly about Italians, but like many such words they can be used in jocular fashion among friends. At least that's what my Guinea-goomba friends tell me. Like I say, they're a jocular lot, so maybe they're putting me on about that-- I'm not about to put it to the test.

Both wop and goomba come from the dialect many Italian-Americans learn at home, and that adds a layer of complexity to the use of the words in AE. In English-speaking contexts, for example, wop is slightly more insulting than dago-- but in a bilingual setting the reverse is true because of the ethnic origin of the word. Goomba likewise, except that in inoffensive use, the word is more likely to be stressed on the last syllable, and because it has connotations of "countryman" it can be used with a personal possessive pronoun.

"Yeah I know Enzo, he's my goombà" is like saying "he's my homie." "He's my GOOMba" sounds a sour note, like you're trying to be cute and use the kind of Mafia-referential entertainment-industry words that many find offensive.

Now that's a pretty nuanced line between friendly and offensive, and there are other such cases with all these terms. So my advice about their usage is the same thing it always seems to boil down to, once we've hashed over this topic. It's best to take care, listen and learn for a long while-- then avoid using "comic-disparaging" terms unless you're a comfortably-accepted member of the group you're in, and your friendly intentions are beyond doubt.
.
Thomas1 said:
I'm especially interrested if thre are any local differences in use of this word and also would like to know if you find it offensive and disparaging?

If you know of any similar words to the one in query, please include it in your post.

Off the top of my head i can think of about 7 or 8 offensive terms for people of different nationalities...It is rather shameful that we have so many - are there as many in AE? Or in Spanish? If anyone wants me to list them i will, but they are words i wouldn't write unless asked to!
For the record, i still hear 'Dago' used quite a lot, but almost without exception in an ironic sense - ie not actually being offensive but making fun of people who use it as an offensive term. Unfortunately many of the others i refer too are in far too common usage...
I'll never forget the first time I heard the word dago. I was watching an episode of Fawlty Towers. John Cleese's character, Basil Fawlty, called his employee Manuel a "dago dodo." It was definitely an insult and Manuel is definitley not Italian--they are always saying, "He's from Barcelona."
My wife is a dago. 👁 Smile :)
We joke around about it; she is not offended in that context. She is Italian and knows that words only as it refers to Italians. I've never heard it in the other contexts, but I am relatively young so I have not seen it go through its various stages of evolution. Indeed, I am not a fan of racial slurs in general, so my knowledge of its current use is limited as well.

Glad to be of no help whatsoever.
Both wop and goombah were originally words from my dialect, Neapolitan.

Wop, which many people erroneously think stands for "without official papers", when pronounced with an American "o" sound is a perfect representation of how the word guappo is pronounced in Neapolitan(the final vowel being elided). This is also the etymology put forward in OED.

Guappo was a Neapolitan borrowing from Spanish (guapo) during the period of Spanish rule in Naples. Guappo is nowadays mostly used jocularly to refer to a guy who puts on macho airs and affects an "I couldn't care less" attitude. In the backstreets of Naples you can still hear guys shouting Uè guapp' at each other jocularly. My guess is that Americans heard immigrants use this word and applied it to all Italian immigrants.

Goombah, when pronounced with a stress on bah (as Fox has pointed out) is once again a faithful representation of the way cumpa' is pronounced in Neapolitan. Cumpa' is short for cumpare(compare in It. = godfather), the final syllable being dropped in the vocative in Neapolitan. It is used exactly as mate is in BE - as a form of address between guys. In Neapolitan c sounds like g and p like b.

I hope I haven't bored you. The Neapolitan dialect is particularly dear to me. Like many people from middle-class families I was forbidden to speak the dialect at home and at school. I have since made an effort to speak it on a regular basis although napoletani veraci(genuine Neapolitans) tell me my accent is still not quite right👁 Smile :)
. Italian is basically a literary language and has developed as a living language relatively recently. When you feel you want to express yourself more freely or emotionally you resort to dialect.
In Finnish, more than 40 years ago, we used to have ha slang word borrowed directly from English 'dago', although its was pronunciation was just a bit different, not much. Besides the Italians and Spanish, it covered all the latin peoples (South America, etc.), the Greeks and possibly other Mediterranean people. It was absolutely offensive. My generation may remember the word but, fortunately, today's youth has no idea what it means.
We don't much use terms like 'Latino' or 'Hispanic' in the UK.

To me, Dagos are Spanish, Wops Italian and Frogs French.

According to Collins English Dictionary
- dago (derogatory) is a member of a Latin race esp. Spanish or Portuguese
- wop (derogatory) is a member of a Latin people, esp. an Italian
- Frog is a deroatory word for a French person.

All these words should be used with great care and could cause offence. It is of course open to members of the groups in question to use the words themselves in an attempt to reclaim the word for themselves and give it positive connotations (compare the use of the word 'queer' by homosexuals).
Moodywop, your post was really interesting and not in the least "boring".

I totally agree with those who have said that these words should be used with great care, even if the company you are with uses them. I know that my best friend and I use the most (to some) appalling and vulgar language amongst ourselves, enjoying the freedom and the overturning of taboos. However, if someone I did not know well were to use them I might well be extremely offended.
To confirm the above posts, from wikipedia.com:
In American English, the term dago refers to Italians and Italian Americans, especially recent immigrants and others not fully assimilated into Anglo-American culture. Although more commonly used in the early 20th century, "dago" is now considered quite offensive.
Dago is also a derogatory term used in British English to refer to people of Spanish, Italian, or Portuguese origin. It is derived from "Diego", a Spanish name equivalent to English "Jacob".
french4beth said:
To confirm the above posts, from wikipedia.com:

When I was at school, 30 years in Britain, dago meant any of the Latin and/or Mediterranean peoples (incl Greeks), especially when (or because) they had dark skin. It was the dark skin that clinched it, that triggered the racial slur.
Via circumstance of age or geography, dago is completely unfamiliar to me.

I am, however, familiar with wop and goombah (as well as "guido").

I was especially glad to read Moodywop's post about the origins of these words.
another word,referred to dago,is wog.in australia most people say wog....I remember when a white boy called my boyfriend "wog"....I was so pissed off!
I have never heard "dago" applied to Spaniards or Latinos; it's always been an insulting term for Italians.

As far as ethnic insults towards Spaniards, I don't think there have ever been enough of them in New York to warrant their own fighting word. Back when I was young, "Spic" was reserved for the Caribbean Latinos who made up the bulk of our Spanish-speaking population.
ingle85 said:
another word,referred to dago,is wog.in australia most people say wog....I remember when a white boy called my boyfriend "wog"....I was so pissed off!

In Britain, 'wog' was used (and unfortunately may still occasionally be used) of people of black African, black Caribbean or South Asian appearance. It is EXTREMELY offensive, far more offensive than 'dago', 'wop' or 'frog', and always implies contempt. (Sorry, I thought I'd better post this warning though we are getting off the subject).
ingle85 said:
another word,referred to dago,is wog.in australia most people say wog....I remember when a white boy called my boyfriend "wog"....I was so pissed off!

Wog in Australia can mean Greek or Italian,
and is still in use among younger people.
It is mildly offensive.

In Australia, wog can also mean a minor illness, such as a cold.
It is not offensive in this context.

This use of the word can get Australians into trouble in Britain.
Imagine an Australian lass ringing her British boss to explain her absence: "I can't come to work to-day - I'm in bed with a wog."

In Australia, Dago was just for Italians, and according to my kids, not used anymore by the younger generation.
Dago is also a derogatory term used in British English to refer to people of Spanish, Italian, or Portuguese origin. It is derived from "Diego", a Spanish name equivalent to English "Jacob".

My own name is Diego and I could be considered a dago (I was born in Spain) by some intolerant and not very intelligent/cultured people. I don't mind if some people can't pronounce my name properly and I am addressed to as diego, di-e-go, di-ei-gou or dai-go.....as long as they love me.

Some years ago I spent a week in the Lake District and I went to Castlerigg Stone Circle near Keswick. The National Trust-English Heritage had written there that the stone circle had been erected by Iberians coming from the Iberian peninsula 2700 years before Christ.

For those interested in history:

In around 2700 BC a newarrived in Britain, often referred to as the . Beaker pottery appears in the (2700 BC - 2000 BC) along with flat axes and burial practices of . The megalithic phases of Stonehenge date to this period
Believed to be of origin (modern day and ), Beaker techniques brought to Britain the skill of refining .

I wouldn't be offended if someone considers me a dago. Do they really know that perhaps they are insulting their own history and heritage? I am sure they don't, intelligence and intolerance don't seem to get on very well.
moodywop said:
Both wop and goombah were originally words from my dialect, Neapolitan.

Wop, which many people erroneously think stands for "without official papers", when pronounced with an American "o" sound is a perfect representation of how the word guappo is pronounced in Neapolitan(the final vowel being elided). This is also the etymology put forward in OED.

Guappo was a Neapolitan borrowing from Spanish (guapo) during the period of Spanish rule in Naples. Guappo is nowadays mostly used jocularly to refer to a guy who puts on macho airs and affects an "I couldn't care less" attitude. In the backstreets of Naples you can still hear guys shouting Uè guapp' at each other jocularly. My guess is that Americans heard immigrants use this word and applied it to all Italian immigrants.

Goombah, when pronounced with a stress on bah (as Fox has pointed out) is once again a faithful representation of the way cumpa' is pronounced in Neapolitan. Cumpa' is short for cumpare(compare in It. = godfather), the final syllable being dropped in the vocative in Neapolitan. It is used exactly as mate is in BE - as a form of address between guys. In Neapolitan c sounds like g and p like b.

I hope I haven't bored you. The Neapolitan dialect is particularly dear to me. Like many people from middle-class families I was forbidden to speak the dialect at home and at school. I have since made an effort to speak it on a regular basis although napoletani veraci(genuine Neapolitans) tell me my accent is still not quite right👁 Smile :)
. Italian is basically a literary language and has developed as a living language relatively recently. When you feel you want to express yourself more freely or emotionally you resort to dialect.
Interesting...Guapo in spanish is "handsome"
scotu said:
Interesting...Guapo in spanish is "handsome"
Yes, but also "cute," and there's an expression "don't get cute" in AE that I believe has an equivalent in dialetto. In both cases it's used to describe smirky sarcastic behavior typical of "juvenile-delinquent" (1950s) and "gangsta-wannabe" types. "Smart-ass" is another very similar case where a word with a positive connotation is used ironically.

In Naples, at least when I lived there (in my early teens), guappo as a noun referred to cocky young males. It was applied in a derogatory but often weirdly affectionate way, and of course we picked up on it and greeted each other with "Oe, guapp'," just as Moodywop pointed out. We'd also say "stu guapp'" in a jocularly insulting way, the way you'd say "asshole!" to a compadre of yours, just to let him know he was acting like one.

I can't say how the word has evolved in more than 45 years (ouch!), but with Moodywop around I don't have to hazard a guess.

Like most of these borderline-offensive, sometimes affectionate words, context is everything-- and even more important is the tone of the person using the term. That's what discloses his/r intent-- and if your intent is to insult someone unlike yourself, both wop and dago do the job just fine.
.
Originally Posted by scotu
Interesting...Guapo in spanish is "handsome"

Although that word originally meant something related to "despicable, ugly, vile", later on it meant "brave" and now it means "handsome".
diegodbs said:
Although that word originally meant something related to "despicable, ugly, vile", later on it meant "brave" and now it means "handsome".

Diego

I suppose that Neapolitan guappo must be derived from guapo in its "brave" sense. Any idea when the meaning changed? (I don't know if there is a Spanish equivalent of the OED). Apparently the "vile" sense is derived from Latin vappa (wine gone flat).

foxfirebrand said:
In Naples, at least when I lived there (in my early teens), guappo as a noun referred to cocky young males. It was applied in a derogatory but often weirdly affectionate way, and of course we picked up on it and greeted each other with "Oe, guapp'," just as Moodywop pointed out. We'd also say "stu guapp'" in a jocularly insulting way, the way you'd say "asshole!" to a compadre of yours, just to let him know he was acting like one.

Fox

It never ceases to amaze me (and move me) how vivid your memories of Naples are. There is some deep-seated affection there. No wonder you sometimes join forces with me as dialectorum defensor👁 Smile :)
 at IE.

I wouldn't call guappo derogatory or compare it to "asshole". I would say stu guapp' (in a jocular, totally non-aggressive way) to someone who always wants to have his way. On the other hand saying nun fa' 'o guapp' cu' mme (don't behave like a guappo to me) would convey irritation. Today the jocular, even affectionate, use is the norm. I call my little nephew guappetiello. The word is central to the song Guapparia(you can hear it and read the lyrics here - it might trigger a trip down memory lane👁 Smile :)
).

It's interesting how many different words English dictionaries have to resort to to translate guappo in the etymology of wop: bold, showy, braggart, blusterer, swaggerer, bully, tough, dude, stud. The Dict of American Slang adds used as a greeting by male Neapolitans.

I'm afraid I'll never be more than a guapp'i carton' ("a cardboard guappo", a bit like a "paper tiger").
Moodywop said:
I suppose that Neapolitan guappo must be derived from guapo in its "brave" sense. Any idea when the meaning changed? (I don't know if there is a Spanish equivalent of the OED).

Carlo,
The dictionary of the Real Academia Española is something in the direction of the OED. My 1732 edition has only positive meanings. Here is a quick and dirty translation:

Guapo: valerous, resolute, courageous, performing brave and arduous acts....

Guapo: gallant, lucid, giving much attention to decency and adornment of one's person...

Guapo: a ladies' man

The negative meaning must be quite a bit older.
cuchuflete said:
Guapo: valerous, resolute, courageous, performing brave and arduous acts....

Guapo: gallant, lucid, giving much attention to decency and adornment of one's person...

Guapo: a ladies' man

Thanks, Cuchu. Now it all makes sense. These are clearly the meanings of guapo which were current when the word entered Neapolitan, during the period of Spanish rule in Naples (1503-1707).

The second meaning you quote also explains why the OED translates guapo as dandy (in the etymological information on wop)
In old Spanish texts, guapo can have a negative connotation.

According to my Latin etimological dictionary the Italian word guappo comes from the Spanish word guapo, which in turn comes from the Old French word wape, which comes from the Latin word vappa, which is derived from the Latin word vapor.
Carlo,
Many of the 1732 RAE entries are in the current publication, totally unchanged! What has changed are the Latin etymologies.

The current edition gives this:

guapo, pa.
(Del lat. vappa, vino estropeado, hombre vil, vagabundo).
The RAE doesn't always show all of the intervening steps between Latin and Spanish. If it did, it might be twice as long, at least, given that so many Spanish words passed through other lenguas romances or dialects of Latín vulgar before making it to castellano. That's why a Latin dictionary that lists the derivatives of Latin words can come in handy for filling in the blanks.
Thomas1 said:
Therefore, would you say it's not used because it is obsolete or it is a kind of word that people don't use since it's quite offensive?

In American English (and elsewhere too, I believe) there is an IMMENSE vocabulary of these words. They can still be used among friends (particularly male) in a humorous, joking way - which invites the same type of response to the other person's ethnicity. Otherwise, they are always offensive and insulting, as are those who still use them. One caveat: such words referring to black people and to Jews can NEVER be used, even jokingly or humorously in the U.S., without stamping the user as a racist. Enough is enough.

Some of these ethnic designations have been used in the past, always demeaningly, as adjectives and can be found in some authors of the '20s, '30s and '40s, and in Hollywood "B" films:

They came out with a big jug of Dago red.

(Cheap red wine - from California or Italy.) These uses are also rude and impolite.

Other such, for Italians: wop (supposedly an immigration abbreviation for: Without papers, written: w/o p, but I have heard other derivations), guinea (upon its creation, the Verrazano bridge in New York, which, viewed from a local level, links an Italian-American neighborhood in Brooklyn with Staten Island, the most Italian-American borough, was known locally as the "Guinea Gangplank" - even more so after the film "Saturday Night Fever"); greasers, greaseballs (also used for Hispanic Americans).

These words should be avoided by all and sundry, whether native speakers or not, as should words like: "honkie" and "cracker." Almost all of them qualify as "fighting words," i.e., their use is a legal justification for striking the person using them and will excuse, in court, any injury (short of permanent maiming or death) the user may suffer in consequence. The same holds true of vulgarities used to describe homosexuals.
Dago red! I haven't heard that one used in 20 years or more! How times have changed. My own father was called "Dago Joe" (to distinguish him from "Indian Joe" with whom he worked. When I was little, I thought "Dago" was his first name!

But I would second ChiMike's advice to natives and non-natives alike. Don't use any of these terms unless you are absolutely sure there will not be repercussions! (By that, I mean that if you hear an Italian refer to himself as a "Dago," you could ask why he does that, what it means to him, how he'd feel if someone else called him that, etc.)

Personally, I have wiped almost all such terms from my vocabularly (except those which I share with an old friend or two because the words apply to both of us.).
I have started a new thread in Cultural Discussions about the concept of "Fighting Words" as a legal justification for violence. Thanks, Mike, for that information - really interesting.
moodywop said:
I wouldn't call guappo derogatory or compare it to "asshole". I would say stu guapp' (in a jocular, totally non-aggressive way) to someone who always wants to have his way
Well, in the military subculture asshole is a much, much less offensive term than it seems to be in the general pop.

"Don't be an asshole, man-- I saw her first."
"Well you're shit out of luck, then-- I think she likes assholes."

As one who's always had to "go native" in life, and take on the culture of those surrounding me, I would never consider you a second-class wop-- you love the place and its language, which you were denied as a child, and this makes you as real as anyone "born to it."

Now that ChiMike has brought up "Guinea," I'll second his notion that it is a much more unmitigatedly derogatory word. When I lived in Naples, there were plenty of service personnel who weren't too thrilled with the place, the high crime rate, the overall dangerousness of it-- and they came to dislike the people, sometimes strongly. When they expressed this dislike, Guinea was the word they always went for.

"Someone who always wants to have his own way"-- in the variant spoken by GIs, and by extension brats, this is exactly what you're giving a friend shit about when you call him "asshole."

My kids call each other that when they're wrangling in a "jocular" manner, and one of them gets the upper hand. Didn't fall too far from the tree, I guess.
.
cuchuflete said:
Carlo,
Many of the 1732 RAE entries are in the current publication, totally unchanged! What has changed are the Latin etymologies.

The current edition gives this:

guapo, pa.
(Del lat. vappa, vino estropeado, hombre vil, vagabundo).

This word exists in Old French, as "wape" or "guape" or "gape" and the derivation given is the same: probably, vapidum from vappa. There is something a bit strange about such a derivation in OF, since initial v- in Latin or Vulgar Latin almost always remains v-, or, in certain rare cases, becomes f- (fois, but then not in Spanish or Italian: veces, vece) or b- (and only thru most unusual circumstances: brébis). This spelling in OF usually indicates a Germanic or Celtic root or the confusion of a Germanic or Celtic root with a Latin root beginning with v-, or a probable prior borrowing of a Germanic root into Latin: vastare, OHG: wuosti, OF guaster, F. gâter (Eng. waste). The problem is that I see no Germanic root, except perhaps the common Teutonic: web (with a diminished b) meaning to move about briskly, giving the English word Weevil, which, however, is already attested in OE as "wifel". There is also the possibility of contamination by OF "gap" (attested repeatedly in Chrétien de Troyes) but this is from Germanic "gabb" with a very hard "b" which gave: gabar (prov.), gaber (F), gabar (Sp.), and the English "gab".

So, there is something strange going on here, but danged if I know what it is!👁 Confused :confused:
I don't understand the "Guinea" thing. Could someone please explain it to a poor limey?
ChiMike said:
[...]
These words should be avoided by all and sundry, whether native speakers or not, as should words like: "honkie" and "cracker." Almost all of them qualify as "fighting words," i.e., their use is a legal justification for striking the person using them and will excuse, in court, any injury (short of permanent maiming or death) the user may suffer in consequence. The same holds true of vulgarities used to describe homosexuals.

👁 Eek! :eek:
To me this is really shocking! How come that you can excuse a human who killed someone just for calling them "dago", "honkie", etc? Or is there something I don't know of, please?
I don't try to justificate people who use such words because they are offencing but I don't think it's a good reason for freeing someone from bearing the consequences for killing or maiming the other person either. Are the Americans really that touchy about ethinc slur? And what about the other English-speaking nations, are they the same?
In my opinion the wieght of the two is not the same. How can one consider as equal calling someone a dago and killing someone or even as a more grave crime a gross abuse than killing?
Hi Thomas. ChiMike actually said that you can injure but you cannot kill or maim. Also, if you look at the thread on Fighting Words in the Cultural Forum, you will see that ChiMike was actually wrong about this law (sorry Mike!) and that it doesn't exist.
I don't know why but when I read ChiMike's post I could swear I saw "short permanent maiming or death," 👁 Eek! :o
, Thanks a lot for pointing that out and for the information you included in your post it clarifies things quite nicely 👁 Smile :)
.
Hi Thomas. Mike said shortnot "or". In this context it means, "not including".
emma42 said:
I don't understand the "Guinea" thing. Could someone please explain it to a poor limey?

Emma

According to the Cassell Dict of Slang:

guinea (from Guinea Negro) orig. a Black (18th c).
[late 19thc] an Italian person, usu. an immigrant to the US
"The original guineas were Black slaves from the Guinea coast of Africa, and the term gradually evolved to mean anybody with a notably dark complexion, although it is rarely if ever used to mean a Black in the 20th c."

Earliest example in the Historical Dict of American Slang:

1890 Harper's Wkly: The lower "sporting" element in the poorer quarters of New York call them "Guineas" and "Dagoes"

A variant spelling is "ghinny".
emma42 said:
Thank you, Carlo. I had no idea.

Actually another derogatory word for Italians that I only heard for the first time recently is "a Guido/guido", apparently used to refer to guys like the character played by John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever (Toni Manero).
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