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Dummy it

LeoBritish

Senior Member
Turkish
But different as the cities of earlier epochs may have been by virtue of their development in a preindustrial and pre capitalist order from the great cities of today, they were, nevertheless, cities.

Lous wirth, urbanism as a way of life

Is there a dummy "it" before "different"?

And how can it be to write "by virtue of" just after "been"?
I don't see an "it" anywhere. Do you wish to put one in? Why?

The structure is

But different as the cities of earlier epochs may have been, they were, nevertheless, cities.

or even more basically

But they were, nevertheless, cities.

or ultimately

But they were cities.
Is there a dummy "it" before "different"?
No.

But different as the cities of earlier epochs may have been by virtue of their development in a preindustrial and pre capitalist order from the great cities of today, they were, nevertheless, cities.

We can simplify the sentence as

Although the cities of earlier epochs may have been very different from the great cities of today because of their development in a preindustrial and pre capitalist order, they were, nevertheless, cities.
We can simplify the sentence as

Although the cities of earlier epochs may have been very different from the great cities of today because of their development in a preindustrial and pre capitalist order, they were, nevertheless, cities.
I think that that changes it rather than simplifies. You have lost the reference to the previous sentence - implied by the conjunction "but".

LeoBritish - Could you include the prior sentence? It gives meaning to "but" and to what follows.
Although the cities of earlier epochs may have been very different from the great cities of today because of their (= the cities of earlier epochs) development in a preindustrial and pre capitalist order, they were, nevertheless, cities.
Does that help?
Does that help?
I'm not sure if you are asking me. If so, no. I could envisage replacing "but" with "however" but not with "although".
Paul's colour-coding goes wrong; he intends 'different as' to become 'although... different' (not 'although ...different') , and forgets about the 'But'. So :-

But, although the cities of earlier epochs may have been very different from the great cities of today because of their development in a preindustrial and pre capitalist order, they were, nevertheless, cities.

I must admit that I hadn't noticed he'd forgotten about the 'But', but Chasint's clearly more sensitive to colour than I am. However, I've now found out what some of those funny symbols are for, so at least I have benefited from the error.
I don't see an "it" anywhere. Do you wish to put one in? Why?

The structure is

But different as the cities of earlier epochs may have been, they were, nevertheless, cities.

or even more basically

But they were, nevertheless, cities.

or ultimately

But they were cities.
Well, what is the subject of may have been?
Last edited:
I think that that changes it rather than simplifies. You have lost the reference to the previous sentence - implied by the conjunction "but".

LeoBritish - Could you include the prior sentence? It gives meaning to "but" and to what follows.

Attachments

Can I have a chance to rewrite this sentence as shown below?

But different as the cities of earlier epochs may have been from the great cities of today. They were, nevertheless, cities by virtue of their development in a preindustrial and precapitalist order.
No, the first clause is a dependent clause and cannot stand on its down. "Different as X was/were" is a subordinating structure and carries the meaning of "although X was/were different", as pointed out by PaulQ.
No, the first clause is a dependent clause and cannot stand on its down. "Different as X was/were" is a subordinating structure and carries the meaning of "although X was/were different", as pointed out by PaulQ.
But the clause which starts with by virtue of and ends with order is located in the sentence between may have been and from the great cities. And I, only, located it at the of sentence because of binding have been and from.
Maybe this rewrite will help show which part goes with which.
The cities of earlier epochs were different from the great cities of today by virtue of their development in a preindustrial and pre capitalist order. But however different they may have been from today's great cities, they were, nevertheless, cities.
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