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Perforce

Zeidan

Senior Member
Arabic
Hi everybody,

Could you please tell me how can I say that something well be done 'per force' in informal English?
Like for example if I want to tell my brother that I will drive the car per force?
per force is quite formal I guess, so can I know how could I say it informally?

Thank you all in advance.
You are right in believing that "perforce" is not everyday English.

You might simply say "I will drive the car."
If you really wanted to stress that the situation is unavoidable, you would say "I will be forced to drive the car" or "I have no choice but to drive the car." These are all idiomatic.
Per force, written like that, does not mean anything to me.
There is an English word, perforce - meaning by necessity; by force of circumstance.

Can you explain what it is you are trying to say?
Hi everybody,

Could you please tell me how can I say that something well be done 'per force' in informal English?
Like for example if I want to tell my brother that I will drive the car per force?
per force is quite formal I guess, so can I know how could I say it informally?

Thank you all in advance.

I think, as Panj has indicated, that you mean "perforce". And, in fact, the use of that word is extremely rare even in very formal, scholarly texts let alone in everyday English.

"Perforce" means "by necessity". As a result, if your brother has a broken, leg, for example, and you both need to go somewhere together, you would be driving the car "perforce".
Ok guys,

If I tell someone that he or she must do something willingly or perforce that means that they must do it whether they like it or not, and that is what I need. I need to tell someone that I will do something whether they agree or not, but I don't know how to say this informally.
is that all for this sense of meaning, is there any thing stronger? I mean suppose you are slightly angry or nervous?
Ok, I think I failed to express exactly what I want, so let me put it another way. Suppose that I want to do something and someone else doesn't want me to do it, so I tell him or her that I will do what I want even if they don't agree to it, that what I want.
Sorry for troubling you,and I hope you got it.
Ok, I think I failed to express exactly what I want, so let me put it another way. Suppose that I want to do something and someone else doesn't want me to do it, so I tell him or her that I will do what I want even if they don't agree to it, that what I want.
Sorry for troubling you,and I hope you got it.

"I'm sorry that you don't like it but that's the way it's going to be"
"I know you disagree but it's what I want/have to do"
"It's my decision, not yours"

There is a myriad of ways to say this, Zeidan, depending on the strength you want to use.
Ok guys,

If I tell someone that he or she must do something willingly or perforce that means that they must do it whether they like it or not, and that is what I need. I need to tell someone that I will do something whether they agree or not, but I don't know how to say this informally.


Zeidan, forget the (very old-fashioned) "perforce". You've expressed the idea perfectly in your own posts:

"You will do it whether you like it or not"
"I will do it whether you agree or not".

Spot on!

Loob
Yes, don't use "perforce" - this is a very literary word.

Whatever you say, I am going to do it.
Many thanks for all of you.
Ok guys,

If I tell someone that he or she must do something willingly or perforce that means that they must do it whether they like it or not, and that is what I need. I need to tell someone that I will do something whether they agree or not, but I don't know how to say this informally.

I LOVE the phrase "willingly or perforce". I didn't know it until thirty minutes ago, nor that its origins were in Islamic scripture. Thank you!

Oh, and I am an English-speaker. What the fellas above said is true. "Perforce" is not a word you use at the local supermarket.
It's a phrase that's used at least twice in the Koran, I just discovered.
If the Koran had been written in English, that might be true. However, it was not - perforce is an English word derived through Middle English from Old French.
If the Koran had been written in English, that might be true. However, it was not - perforce is an English word derived through Middle English from Old French.

I didn't say "perforce" was an Islamic word. I said that I had never before encountered the picturesque English expression "willingly or perforce", which is a translation of a phrase in the Koran.
Hi Jacques

I suspect the phrase "willingly or perforce" existed before its use in a translation of the Koran. That said, the earliest example Google's given me is from 1708, in The Phenix by John Dunton (here):
Are they banish'd and poor, willingly or perforce? Were they not and might they not (if they set more by Goods than Godliness) be richer ?
Google's silent (to me at least👁 Frown :(
) on when "willingly or perforce" was first used in a translation of the Koran. Most translations, judging by this site, have "willingly or unwillingly", "willingly or not" etc.
Last edited:
Hi Jacques

I suspect the phrase "willingly or perforce" existed before its use in a translation of the Koran. That said, the earliest example Google's given me is from 1708, in The Phenix by John Dunton (here): Google's silent (to me at least👁 Frown :(
) on when "willingly or perforce" was first used in a translation of the Koran. Most translations, judging by this site, have "willingly or unwillingly", "willingly or not" etc.

Hey Loob!

Thank you for your urbane post and for your research. As the French say: I'll die a little less stupid now. You're right: it already occurred to me that it was simply a phrase that had more common currency at the time of the translation. All foreign religious tracts are subject to translators' enhancements and heresies — don't hate me because I made a sweeping, late-night generalization! I'm an editor by trade, so I would never have allowed that statement to make it into print without the fact-checking I unwittingly made you go and do! A good example of how a throw-away remark gains immortality on the Internet.

As a bilingual heritage presenter here in Canada, 18th-century English and French turns of phrase are of very great interest to me. The word "perforce" is unfamiliar to most North Americans; I thought it would be amusing to introduce it now and again into my discourses. I think it makes a visit richer to hear such unfamiliar words: I was tickled to hear the animators at Williamsburg call sunglasses "protectors". Sunglasses were still on the drawing board, back then......
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