The Deep Dive

Hello! I'm new. Duh. And I have not so much a theory, but a question to pose.

A lot of questions, actually.

That's my shitload of weird questions. .

Hi everyone! My name's RC, and I'm here to get a theory off my chest that I've been pondering since I started playing KH2. Here we go.

Supposedly, when someone surrenders their heart to the Darkness, if their will is sufficiently strong, they become a Nobody. If I understand correctly, this means that the Nobodies are the bodies, the shells of someone who lost their heart. Doesn't this mean that the Nobodies are the creatures that are 'Heartless'?

For all the fact that the Ansem Reports in KH1 claimed that the Heartless are literally 'those without hearts', this seems to be incorrect. When Sora (or Goofy, or Donald, or Sephiroth, apparently) kills these little critters you get a floating pink, glowing heart-shaped thing rising out of them as they disintegrate. Axel says in KH2, "Every Heartess slain with that Keyblade releases a captive heart." Later, Saix says, "The rage of the Keyblade releases those hearts."  These comments, and my own observations, have led me to believe that the Heartless are classified incorrectly, and they are instead a manifestation of a heart imprisoned by Darkness. How this mistake could have occurred, I have no idea, but I guess that after nine years of the so-called 'Heartless' running rampant through the worlds, I guess that it would have been too confusing to change it.

In that vein, it has puzzled me that Goofy and Donald are apparently also able to release the hearts as well, since they aren't wielding Keyblades. Sephiroth, in KH2, was shown wasting Heartless - pink glow-y things floated off to God-knows-where when he did that. This seems to be a contradiction in what Axel and Saix said. I don't know whether there was something that specifically said this, but I seem to remember someone saying that Keyblades were the only weapons that could slay the Heartless. Or maybe it was that the Keyblade was only the weapon that the Heartless feared. I can't remember.

Anyway, this is all I can think of right now. 

~ReadingChick

Hey guys! I've been reading the director's report as kh-vids is translating it, and let me say, it clears up a LOT. But it presents some new questions, too. For example, one of the questions asked what happened when a nobody was defeated vs. when a heartless was defeated and the answer was:
"When heartless are defeated, essentially the owner's hearts are rejoined with their once extenguished body, whichever world it may be on. As for the whereabouts of hearts in KHII that turn up, this time they remarkably went to the organization (there is a foot note here that says "In Kingdom Hearts II after heartless were defeated, the many hearts were absorbed by the Kingdom Hearts of "people's hearts"). However, in the rare case that the body changed into a Nobody, when there is no container for the heart it resorts to a state of suspension.

In the case of a Nobody being defeated, it's a little more complicated. If the above mentioned hearts are liberated, they return to their original form. However, if the heart is still stolen by the heartless, the Nobody's body is swallowed by darkness. If somewhere in the world their hearts are taken back, perhaps they might be able to return to their original human form."

So, essentially, if thier heartless is still running around, undefeated, thier bodies fade into darkness, but if thier heartless is defeated, then the heart returns to it's body and becomes human again. yay! :D Sooo... what happened to the Orginization after Sora defeated them?

If you read through the Ansem Reports from the second game, you come upon this interesting little tidbit in the 6th one:
"The other five have disappeared. Have they become Heartless, like Xehanort?
Or did they vanish after Xehanort exploited them?"

My opinion on this; When Xehanort was done with them, he killed them. Or got rid of them, or whatever you want to call it. So if that's what happened, then technically both thier heartless and nobodies are dead and they went back to thier original states.

So my questions are: What are your opinions on this? Do you think that because of this, the Orginization got what they wanted in the end after all? What happened to thier heartless(es)? They did all have to become heartless at one point to have nobodies... and I guess Xemnas/Ansem is the only one we know for sure should have gone back to his original form. Which is interesting.
And one last thing: Do you think square will bring the Orginization back, and do you want them to?

Just some stuff to think about. I want to hear some opinions!

Okay, so, I've been a bad mod. I know.

But.

I had to share this revelation that love of my life and roommate 👁 Image
invisibledancer and I had about ( the newest FM+ pics...Collapse )

And so, from these images, we submit to you: ( our analysis.Collapse )

:deeeep breath: Okay. So, that's basically that.

Oh, a side observation: the Keyblade that Enigmatic Guy no. 2 wields looks an awful lot like the Keyblade you get from Axel. This stirs a lot more ideas in our heads... But I think we'll leave those for another post XD

So um... ideas? Comments? Are we totally out of our minds?

(though I hope we aren't -- because I have always been a fan of crazy mofo DiZ /shameless plug)

Much love,

Linds and Ash.

It has been stated by many people in the game that Nobodies don't have hearts. By that, they mean the ability to choose light/darkness and (I think) to feel emotions. Not the one that pumps blood in your body.

Heartless feed on hearts. The first one, not the second one, I think. This comes from the "as long as there is darkness in people's hearts, there will be Heartless" quote that someone said.

As Nobodies don't have hearts, there is no reason for the Heartless to go after them. Right?

And yet, we have Deep Dive. There, the Heartless were clearly attacking Roxas, who does not have a heart. Roxas does have the Keyblade(s), which may explain why the Heartless were after him. But Riku was there as well, and not only does he have a heart, he has a Keyblade, too(Am I right in thinking Riku has Way to Dawn at this point?).

My theroy is that Nobodies have hearts; they are just repressed.  The people who knew the most of these creatures would be Ansem the Wise, Xehanort, etc. I think they assumed that Nobodies didn't have hearts, such the Heartless ate them. They had nothing to prove this.

So the Orginal 6 and AtW think Nobodies don't have hearts because of their(wrong) theroy, and the others(Sora, Saix) believed them. They could show emotion(Demyx, Axel, Roxas, Namine) if they desired to. Xemnas doesn't remember what some emotions feel like because he has convinced himself that he can't.

Any thoughts?

Real quick, guys:

Since there hasn't been much activity in the last couple of weeks, I haven't made any summary posts. I'll pick up on those when the discussion picks up here. I may have to pull some topics out of my...uh...reserve soon.

I promised 👁 Image
khukuri I'd do this in my next mod post: A cute new community has been started called 👁 Image
valentinehearts. It's a secret santa style project for Valentine's Day, and welcomes gifts of all creative types. You can check out the user info here: http://community.livejournal.com/valentinehearts/. You guys should check it out, it's a nice idea.

Sorry I took so long in posting this!

I hope you all have happy holidays, and that you'll all soon come back and start discussing again! I miss it!

<3 Linds

K, this is probably a totally dumb question, but it's been on my mind, so why not.

I am currently writing slash planning a fic in which I feel it will be necessary to mention Sora, Riku, and/or Kairi's surnames. I was going to try and avoid it, since I don't like giving original names to characters that are not mine, but I feel like it will be awkward if I do aaaand...yeah. So I was just wondering. Has anyone ever thought about this before, what Sora, Riku, and/or Kairi's surname might be? Since their given names are Japanese, one would initially assume that their surnames would be as well. But I mean, I don't know. Destiny Islands is clearly not "Japan" in the conventional sense. Would the surname precede the given name like in Japanese, or follow it like in English? (Whatever the case, I will most likely have it follow the given name in my fic, since it's just more readable that way) Iiiii don't really know. I'm usually really horrible about making up names (except when the names come to me in a brilliant stroke of epiphany...which has happened a total of twice XD). Also I'll need a given name for Riku's mum, probably not anyone else. Any ideas? Seen anything particularly striking in your fanfic perusals or fan discussions?

The memories page is now completely updated. I will also be adding a small list of guidelines on how to navigate the mems. You can browse through the old discussions by subject, and refer back to an argument you or someone else made long ago. Um...yay! ♥

Lindsmod.

The promised summary post for...uh...everything since the last one!

Riku, Zexion, and "Smelling the Dark" : 👁 Image
ray_chibikid wonders how one can aquire the ability to "smell" the darkness, and if Riku and Zexion, two characters who sport this ability, are connected in more ways than we might think.

What makes a "strong heart" and who gets to have one? : 👁 Image
jade_fragment leads the discussion, which centers mostly around Others.

'Sanctuary' in reverse: "I need more affection than you know?" and a discussion about names : 👁 Image
cherrybomb provides an evocative link to a version of Sanctuary, KHII's opening theme, in reverse with interpretive subtitles. A discussion about the possibility that 'Sanctuary' was meant to be played in reverse, in which information on Nomura and Utada Hikaru's intentions are cited, as well as a related discussion about the meaning being Namine's name, as well as the Destiny Trio's.

Roxas: "Six Days" in Twilight Town? : 👁 Image
i_got_spunk wonders how long Roxas was actually in DiZ's computerized prison. Dorky discussion about computers and gaming ensues. XD

Blue and Red: Saïx and Axel : 👁 Image
euphonious_glow leads an incredible discussion about these two characters and their interactions with each other.

Cloning Hearts? : 👁 Image
colichemarde wonders about Organization XIII's ability to actually clone hearts.

A continued discussion of names, and a modly reminder : I move an incredibly popular branch discussion into its own post, and post a few friendly reminders about what this community is about. More toying with the Japanese language ensues.

Songs and Kingdom Hearts : 👁 Image
lindskaba starts a thread about songs that remind us of Kingdom Hearts.

My Life as a Nobody: Do Somebodies Remember Their Nobody Selves? : 👁 Image
colichemarde points out that Nobodies remember their Somebody self; does it work the other way around?

The Organization's 'Other' Names : 👁 Image
lindskaba and 👁 Image
invisibledancer are total dorks and created names for Organization #'s 7 thru 12...as well as Organization names for themselves.

So what's up with that Xehanort guy anyway? : 👁 Image
invisibledancer puts it out there: who was Xehanort really? Theories about Xeha being a nobody; discussions about his name, abilities, and memory; and theories about where KHIII is going.

Namine, Kairi, Roxas, and Sora: On Memories and Abilities : 👁 Image
invisibledancer brings up another difficult question about these four complicated characters: who has them, and what effects do they have? Discussion of Nobodies in general and specific (and important) side tangents about Namine.

And I think... :gapes: I think that's it! Woah. Okay so yeah. Will definitely be on top of these from now on.

Much love,
Linds.