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| 👁 Image | Text or other creative content from this version of Solitaire was copied or moved into Patience (game) with this edit on 10 February 2011 1:20 AM. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Reversion of imported material
[edit]I've just reverted the material imported by User:Onceinawhile from Solitaire which appears to be a reaction to the recent AFD request not going through. The history of patience/card solitaire needs a considered expansion here, and a balanced overview at the other article alongside the history of other types of solitaire game. All properly referenced of course. I am happy to do that in a few weeks, but don't have the time right now.Bermicourt (talk) 09:52, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[]
- @Bermicourt: this is a contravention of WP:OWN. You don't have time to read edits made by another editor, you believe you know what was in the mind of the other editor, so you revert it until you have time to think about it later. That is unacceptable behavior. Take 5 minutes, consider the edits on their merit, and then later come back to improve further if you like.
- Unless you can explain actual content based objection to your reversion here, it will be added back. Onceinawhile (talk) 10:22, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[]
- Please follow the Wiki process of WP:BRD. Did you look at the sources when you cut and pasted them in here? Do they say what is cited? And what other sources do you intend to use to improve the history section further? Bermicourt (talk) 10:38, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[]
- Your edit introduced a number of problems. First, it is not "unclear" where Patience came from - except to those who don't look at continental sources. Nor is it unclear where the term "(card) solitaire" came from: it was an American invention, by Dick IIRC, even though the early American sources used the English, French and German word "patience". Also the words used do not align with the citations and that needs to be untangled. So you appear to be importing errors from one article to another without checking the original sources. In expanding the history section we need to double check all the citations and make sure they are an accurate reflexion of the sources. Of course, you're welcome to do that, but that doesn't seem to be happening so far. Bermicourt (talk) 10:53, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[]
- @Bermicourt: WP:PROMERGE states
"Ideally, do any necessary copyediting and rearranging in a separate, second edit rather than when you first paste the moved text (to simplify attribution)."
So step 1 is bring in all the additional text and sources, step 2 is fix and improve it. Step 2 cannot be done if step 1 is reverted. - Separately, your approach here goes directly against the advice at WP:BABY. Your critique pertains to a small minority of the added information, yet you revert the whole.
- I intend to add back everything other than what you have explicitly identified concern with. Onceinawhile (talk) 20:33, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[]
- Please look at the sources being cited before adding new material. Bermicourt (talk) 21:07, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[]
- @Bermicourt: WP:PROMERGE states
- Your edit introduced a number of problems. First, it is not "unclear" where Patience came from - except to those who don't look at continental sources. Nor is it unclear where the term "(card) solitaire" came from: it was an American invention, by Dick IIRC, even though the early American sources used the English, French and German word "patience". Also the words used do not align with the citations and that needs to be untangled. So you appear to be importing errors from one article to another without checking the original sources. In expanding the history section we need to double check all the citations and make sure they are an accurate reflexion of the sources. Of course, you're welcome to do that, but that doesn't seem to be happening so far. Bermicourt (talk) 10:53, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[]
- Please follow the Wiki process of WP:BRD. Did you look at the sources when you cut and pasted them in here? Do they say what is cited? And what other sources do you intend to use to improve the history section further? Bermicourt (talk) 10:38, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[]
I think this is fine for now. I have a lot more information to add in due course. Bermicourt (talk) 08:39, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[]
RfC
[edit]Please comment at Talk:Solitaire#RfC: What should be the scope of this article? Onceinawhile (talk) 20:16, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[]
Requested move 24 March 2025
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Not moved. (non-admin closure) Jeffrey34555 (talk) 23:26, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[]
Patience (game) → Solitaire – I know this will be contested, but we should generally not put some European/British bias when deciding on the article title. It is universally known as solitaire, even the largest websites that offer the game genre are called Solitaire. It is simply WP:COMMONNAME. ToadetteEdit (talk) 19:34, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[]
- Oppose Per WP:ENGVAR arguments about retaining existing national variety of English form articulated in the previous move discussion.
- Rafts of Calm (talk) 20:24, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[]
- Oppose per WP:RETAIN. See RMs from 2018 and 2019 also. 162 etc. (talk) 20:43, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[]
- Oppose the base name should remain a disambiguation page, regardless of what happnes to this article; COMMONNAME has nothing to do with moving the disambiguation page, and this nomination is malformed without stating that this is a primary topic usurpation move. -- 65.92.246.77 (talk) 05:29, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Requested move 4 February 2026
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. Moved to Solitaire as suggested below. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vestrian24Bio 03:09, 26 February 2026 (UTC)[]
Patience (game) → Solitaire (card game)Solitaire (card game) – Per WP:COMMONALITY, in British English the game is probably today more commonly known as "solitaire" due to Microsoft Solitaire. Although Britannica may be biased it is at solitaire. If we were talking 40 years ago it would be a different question but today this topic appears to be called "solitaire" rather than "patience" in British English and COMMONALITY trumps WP:RETAIN. The name "patience" is dated in British English and doesn't appear to be used in American English so the current title is British centric at worst. We should try to be as inclusive as possible by using names that most people use rather than those that are dated in one country. I have included "card" in the qualifier due to other games like peg solitaire. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:05, 4 February 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPath 00:22, 12 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- Give it up. This has been proposed over and over. In the last discussion, it was unanimously opposed. — BarrelProof (talk) 18:55, 4 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- RETAIN was the main reason given in the most recent RM of which COMMONALITY trumps (I am a supporter of RETAIN and when it is moving Color to Colour or Orange (colour) to Orange (color) we shouldn't because "colour" is only British and "Color" is only American while "Solitaire" today is used in British English) and unlike previous RMs this doesn't make the card game primary for the base name Solitaire. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:09, 4 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- Move to Solitaire, displacing DAB page per the previous discussion(s). WP:NATURAL overrides RETAIN and the addition of COMMONALITY provides an even stronger argument. RETAIN can still have exceptions when there is an obvious benefit to moving, and I believe there is one here. I assume this will be shot down like last time but I don't believe there is a valid policy-based reason to do so. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:21, 5 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- I've notified the DAB of this suggestion per WP:NOTOTHERPAGES though I'm not sure the card game is primary[[1]]. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:06, 5 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- Could make the same argument for Peg solitaire which is what most Brits would think of, and I wouldn't suggest any move there. YorkshireExpat (talk) 18:38, 5 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- I think today slightly more Brits would think of the card game but I still agree many would think of peg. What's wrong with the suggested move with the qualifier? ENGVAR and RETAIN are trumped by COMMONALITY at least. What would be interesting to know is what is it called in places like Australia and New Zealand? The article says in Canada it is called "solitaire". Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:02, 5 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- I remembered reading this at Christmas. Interesting, and relevant, footnote! YorkshireExpat (talk) 22:18, 5 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- Yes that deals with the peg use, that is to say that the use of "solitaire" to mean the peg game is still common which opposes the alternative suggestion on moving to "Solitaire" but doesn't support that "patience" is the common name in the UK. Even if British people use "patience" more than "solitaire" for the card game COMMONALITY would still apply as it appears Americans don't use "patience" at all. The only way RETAIN would apply is if another country such as Australia only used "patience". Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:49, 5 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- Well, here's a couple of NZ links with pictures of what they're calling solitaire, and here's another NZ link referring to patience as a card game. Australian Patience seems to also be a card game. YorkshireExpat (talk) 19:19, 6 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- Yes that deals with the peg use, that is to say that the use of "solitaire" to mean the peg game is still common which opposes the alternative suggestion on moving to "Solitaire" but doesn't support that "patience" is the common name in the UK. Even if British people use "patience" more than "solitaire" for the card game COMMONALITY would still apply as it appears Americans don't use "patience" at all. The only way RETAIN would apply is if another country such as Australia only used "patience". Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:49, 5 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- I remembered reading this at Christmas. Interesting, and relevant, footnote! YorkshireExpat (talk) 22:18, 5 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- I think today slightly more Brits would think of the card game but I still agree many would think of peg. What's wrong with the suggested move with the qualifier? ENGVAR and RETAIN are trumped by COMMONALITY at least. What would be interesting to know is what is it called in places like Australia and New Zealand? The article says in Canada it is called "solitaire". Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:02, 5 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- Oppose per previous discussions, WP:ENGVAR, and WP:RETAIN. YorkshireExpat (talk) 18:34, 5 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- Oppose per ENGVAR and RETAIN. The card game is still known as patience in British English. Peg solitaire is what we'd think of for solitaire. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:14, 6 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- But isn't it more commonly known as "solitaire" despite peg solitaire? Even if not COMMONALITY probably applies. If we were writing only for British people I would still use "solitaire" because I think that's what most people call it today. I played solitaire on my computer a few weeks ago but I don't think I've heard it called "patience" for decades. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:14, 6 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- No, it isn't. I don't think I've ever heard it referred to as solitaire in the UK. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:11, 9 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- But as has been said British people do call it "solitaire" and some (like me) think it is the most common term today, Americans apparently do not use the term "patience", most people who have access to a computer and play the game will have used Microsoft Solitaire. In order to establish COMMONALITY in a US v UK debate (if "patience" isn't used in American English) it only needs to be the case that "solitaire" is at least sometimes used in British English even if not the most common term. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:46, 9 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- No, it isn't. I don't think I've ever heard it referred to as solitaire in the UK. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:11, 9 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- But isn't it more commonly known as "solitaire" despite peg solitaire? Even if not COMMONALITY probably applies. If we were writing only for British people I would still use "solitaire" because I think that's what most people call it today. I played solitaire on my computer a few weeks ago but I don't think I've heard it called "patience" for decades. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:14, 6 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- Move to Solitaire per WP:NATURALDISAMBIGUATION, WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, and WP:COMMONALITY. Rreagan007 (talk) 03:33, 11 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- Move to Solitaire precisely per Rreagan007 as well as the most recent comment by Swale Crouch, perfectly put. We are approaching WP:YOGURT levels here; once the move is finally made (whether in 2026 or in 2036 after another decade of "no consensus" requests), there will be no argument whatsoever in favor of putting it back at Patience (game). Red Slash 17:57, 11 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- Note: WikiProject Games and WikiProject Board and table games have been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPath 00:23, 12 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- As far as the move goes as noted I'm not sure if the card game is primary for "Solitaire" per views[[2]] since even if you count Microsoft for the card game the card game doesn't get more views than the others combined and Mahjong solitaire has nearly as many. I think this seems reasonable, British people call the card game "solitaire" and "patience" so COMMONALITY probably applies but British people also think of peg when "solitaire" is mentioned and per the views it doesn't appear the card game is the primary topic and NATURAL probably isn't the most important reason for the move as think COMMONALITY would generally trump NATURAL if we were deciding between a NATURAL and COMMONALITY title (which we aren't so it doesn't matter). Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:00, 12 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- WikiNav shows that 66.91% of outgoing pageviews go to this article compared to 17.56% going to Klondike (solitaire). I believe that is partly enough for the article to pass WP:PT1. Thanks, 1isall (talk | contribs) 12:42, 13 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- I was talking about distinct meaning, Klondike is a subtopic so probably isn't a competitor per WP:DABCONCEPT and the views support the gard game being primary. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:03, 13 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- Oh. Thanks, 1isall (talk | contribs) 19:10, 13 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- I was talking about distinct meaning, Klondike is a subtopic so probably isn't a competitor per WP:DABCONCEPT and the views support the gard game being primary. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:03, 13 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- WikiNav shows that 66.91% of outgoing pageviews go to this article compared to 17.56% going to Klondike (solitaire). I believe that is partly enough for the article to pass WP:PT1. Thanks, 1isall (talk | contribs) 12:42, 13 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- Move to Solitaire per the WikiNav stats. Rreagan007 and Red Slash make great arguments that I agree with, so I'm weighing those into my comment as well. Move the current disambiguation page to Solitaire (disambiguation). Thanks, 1isall (talk | contribs) 19:08, 13 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- Support per MOS:COMMONALITY, as an addition, the game is also solitaire in India english. No comment on whether it is the primary topic. Arnav Bhate (talk • contribs) 06:24, 18 February 2026 (UTC)[]
- Move to Solitaire and move the disambiguation page to Solitaire (disambiguation). BD2412 T 01:42, 19 February 2026 (UTC)[]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
“If it’s not an 1, it’s an Ace.”
[edit]Why the Ace card isn’t the 1 card? I think that the Solitaire has 13 cards: A, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, J, Q, K. I mostly think that the Ace card is the 1 card. IronSculkJungle7643 (talk) 19:45, 31 May 2026 (UTC)[]
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