{{ph|placeholder}} is longer than ''<placeholder>'' by one symbol. The use of character references like > instead of the actual character is rarely needed, because MediaWiki treats non-existent tags like <this-tag-does-not-exist> as plain text. All in all, seems like a pointless template to me, even more pointless than the infamous {{code}}. BabylonAS 18:29, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Looking at the actual usage it is for more than the < >, it also italicizes the text. It's used a lot on pages describing commands and files, facilitating a consistent style. Mudscape 👁 Image
talk 18:35, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Are you blind? My no-template comparison does include the italics tags. BabylonAS 18:45, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- No reason to insult people. Templates are still useful for a consistent style and being able to improve that style easily. Mudscape 👁 Image
talk 18:49, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- The italics & angle brackets formatting is not something that needs changing on an everyday basis. It's a convention that originated outside of MCW and is understandable by many. Sorry for the harsh words, but I hate templates that enforce the habit of wasting server resources in order to emit trivial formatting. I hate them ever since one user tried replacing all
<code> tags into templates on RuMCW wherever he could find them. BabylonAS 18:55, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Remind yourself of rule 3. You should be able to control your words in any wiki discussion, but especially a wiki discussion as inconsequential as this. - Harristic / Talk 👁 Image
19:06, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think it's a fine template, it is a bit simpler, but I'd be fine with it getting deleted. - Harristic / Talk 👁 Image
19:06, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Also if you want
{{code}} removed you should make a discussion in my opinion. I don't know why you'd make a discussion about removing placeholder and then try to remove both code and placeholder when there wasn't even support for removing the latter. "Wasting MediaWiki resources" sounds like an entirely intangible issue, and code does actually save bytes. - Harristic / Talk 👁 Image
19:14, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Template:Code uses an entire module which is way too overkill for a simple HTML tag — which can be easily added using a button that is available with a gadget (and even then you only need that gadget with the good old 2010 wiki editor; VisualEditor and the 2017 editor provide that button by default). BabylonAS 19:19, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- If you're looking for a worthwhile optimization to make the damage dealt section on mob takes a lot more time than it needs to. Something about parsing the hearts takes a while. Mudscape 👁 Image
talk 19:26, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- As for wasting resources, remember that MediaWiki needs to process each template invocation, analyze its arguments and add them into certain places inside the template’s code. It’s not an instant task and it might need to be repeated if the page using that template is edited (or the server might have to waste its memory on cached template invocations). If the template only adds a simple tag and/or few symbols without invoking any complex logic or even adding CSS styles, then that template does not deserve to exist, in my opinion. The page size limit of 8 megabytes is too big to realistically hit when writing an article, while the symbol savings are either insignificant or, in case of Text placeholder, completely absent. Also, I remember how such templates were abused even in modules, degrading their performance significantly. BabylonAS 19:32, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Editor time is far more limited than server resources have ever been. Removing
{{placeholder}} removes a point of standardization. It increases the ability for inconsistencies or unnoticed typos. The number of bytes is completely irrelevant, as is the inconsequential processing time from using a simple template a handful of times in wikitext. Server resources on this scale are completely irrelevant and editor ease of use should be priority. Mudscape 👁 Image
talk 19:45, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Typing
''<placeholder>'' is no harder than using the template. And there's absolutely no need to change this format, and consequently make it easier to change. — BabylonAS 19:50, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
