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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Another great episode with a very interesting ending... Argh, I really like this show, I don't want to end so soon. I also wanted to say it seemed the Medicine Seller talked a lot in this arc which is quite interesting since he didn't so much in the last. |
| Yeah, he talks a lot in this arc, which is really nice. I <3 his voice. I was kinda surprised that this arc ended so soon, as the previous arcs had three episodes each. ^^" But this arc is really great, Mononoke just keeps getting better. ^^" It made use of its inherent theatrical vibe by presenting Ochou's life as play, and the art style / imagery improved too -- I don't feel overwhelmed by prints and patterns. Only four episodes left. *sigh* :c |
| Woo. Good stuff that was. Probably my fav arc so far? I dunno, they're all pretty good so far... hrmzz |
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Siing said: Woo. Good stuff that was. Probably my fav arc so far? I dunno, they're all pretty good so far... hrmzz agreed. That was just great. Loved the voice acting |
| Very interesting and subdued conclusion, not bad at all. To me this arc was a bit weaker than the last one but the central focus was a bit more personal than the last, which was nice. Wonder where the faceless man went though in the end. |
| OK, this is the most subtle episode I have ever seen in anime.... To the people who watched it or to the people who will watch this episode in the future, I will share with you how I understood the story....(I know it's a bit late, but this episode HAS to be analyzed) So I hope this cleared things up quite a bit.... |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
wakka9ca said: So I hope this cleared things up quite a bit.... Always nice to read informative viewpoints. I mention in my review that the anime depends on colour and music to set the tone and drive the story, but at the end of the day if you just think about what you watched, it always makes sense. Mononoke isnt just throwing bizarre shit in your face, its always compelling stuff. |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
| Great analysis, wakka ^^ I finished Mononoke a few months ago, so I don't remember exactly everything that happened... but reading your comment cleared up my mind... I remember the story of this arc now XD |
| This arc was really good too. I loved how in the end she was actually the mononoke. It was really interesting. I did like the last arc better though, but seeing the transofmed kusuriuri was awesome :D |
wakka9ca said: OK, this is the most subtle episode I have ever seen in anime.... ... So I hope this cleared things up quite a bit.... I REALLY needed someone to do this for me! That episode says too much in too little time. It is great, and I think this explanation makes a lot of sense... the part where the husband forgets she is dead is kinda weird, though... Any ideas? (Thanks wakka :D) |
| The key part about this episode is that it isn't 100% chronological. For those of you who still don't understand it, i'll lay it out step-by-step. |
wakka9ca said: OK, this is the most subtle episode I have ever seen in anime... So I hope this cleared things up quite a bit.... 'Huh?' turned to 'Ingenious!' after I read your explanation. Thanks! |
Athena said: wakka9ca said: OK, this is the most subtle episode I have ever seen in anime... So I hope this cleared things up quite a bit.... 'Huh?' turned to 'Ingenious!' after I read your explanation. Thanks! Agreed! Thanks for the explanation. I liked this arc alot, but I still feel the 2nd arc (on the ship) is my fave... although this one grew on me alot.... esp after finding out SHE was the mononoke |
| This is definitely my favorite arc! And I think that assuming there is an universal truth behind the story only undermines the true potential of this show, that is to make you wonder, so I'm not really going with any theories about it, just accept the ambiguity of what's been shown. |
| 90% of Anime is shit, but then, 90% of everything is shit. |
| Wow, thanks for the explanation. I have to admit that I didn't quite follow the action ^^ |
| Great explanation, and overall it was the same conclusion I was drawing from this arc. |
| Dead Account Please Delete |
| I wish we'd get some backstory on the medicine seller, but I seriousl doubt it'll happen |
| "The weak get washed away by the tides of fate...The strong drink it up."-Godot |
| By the way, Ochou is very beautiful. Comparing to Kayo and that blonde girl. =)) |
wakka9ca said: So I hope this cleared things up quite a bit.... Yes it did, thank you very much for the info. The Golden Form kinda stayed longer this time which was nice. |
| You see there's no need to wonder where your god is, Coz he's right here! ...and he's fresh out of mercy. |
| The thing that strikes me is the final scene of The Medicine Seller sitting in the kitchen smoking the same exact pipe as the Masked man, I mean what else could that mean except that it was him in some form? In any case, as usual I'm blown away by how much thought was put into this story. Everything came together (for the most part) when it was revealed that Ochou was the Mononoke. Probably my favorite story arc so far, brilliant storytelling. God, this show is truly something special. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Thanks to the guys above who cleared up some of the unclear points. I originally took the plot at face value--definitely having some loose ends here or there--though I still relatively enjoyed the gist and feel of the story. I think it can be said that a lot of different interpretations can be made; here's a small bit that I wanted to add: |
| So my guess from the previous episode did really make sense that the prison was actually a state of mind/illusion. Thanks to those who explained it clearly. After those series of events that so confusing to follow yet just make sense in just a single line - "But there's no one here." , I can already see myself rating this as 10. That was really clever. Really loved the mask symbolism used there as well as the Medicine Seller using a "play" to retell Ochou's story and solve the mystery. So far, it's epic. :D |
| After watching the whole series, I dare say "Nopperabou" is my favourite. I love its psychology and its peculiar mystery - so different from solving people's "normal" mysteries. I was completely overwhelmed and enchanted by the fact it all happened in Ochou's mind. It was to be suspected from the very first line of this story: the announcement about the wife who killed her husband and relatives. It just screamed: "of course it's not true". Sakurai is fantastic here, too, but I was totally delighted with Houko Kuwashima. I usually have problems with female seiyuu, for they rarely manage to grasp my attention (I mean, all those voices sound the same to me), except for those who tend to play boys (Megumi Ogata, Romi Paku, Minami Takayama). But Kuwashima's voice is both feminine and distinct. And her performance as Ochou is marvellous, it's so full of emotion, despair, sadness, pain... It all gets to you as you're listening to her. I know Kuwashima from some other series, I liked her already as Tomihime in "Ayakashi", but here she is splendid. |
| another one that will probably only make proper sense after several watches... I guess It's hard to really say, not knowing the mechanics of how mononoke appear or how Kusuriuri came to be there in the first place; the ending basically puts everything else on its head... They replayed that scene with her fetching the sake so many times in this episode and last, I wonder if there's some clue we're meant to notice... |
| I'll try and keep my response here short because there is a lot that I could write about this episode if I did not stop myself. First of all, you know it is a sign of good series (anime or not) when the events encourage you to think about them and spend time interpreting them afterwards like I did. Now, as for the endings, I think that there is enough ambiguity in the story to support either of the the theories put forth here. Personally, I like that idea that she ran away rather than committed suicide. The Medicine Seller spent a lot of time emphasizing how she could be free if she did not think of the place as a prison - and I am not sure why he would belabor that point if she was already dead. Also, we see the sake scene multiple times this episode and I believe that that event was symbolic of her entire life. Ochou was given plenty of chances to stand up for herself rather than make herself subservient to other people's wishes. But at every chance she was content to remain in her prison, just looking out the window at the sky; and, each time she did so, she "killed" a bit of herself/her soul. That ability to suppress her sense of self so as to cater to the wishes of others was her strength as a Mononoke. It was a talent born from her desire to accept her mother's twisted love and earn her praise. Thus, after she realized her actions and had the Mononoke exorcised from her she was finally able to leave the cell she had made for herself and be free... or so I'd like to think. In short, what I wanted to say was "great episode" - haha. |
| this arc was confusing but i think it is the best one so far |
Takumaku said: Thanks to the guys above who cleared up some of the unclear points. I originally took the plot at face value--definitely having some loose ends here or there--though I still relatively enjoyed the gist and feel of the story. I think it can be said that a lot of different interpretations can be made; here's a small bit that I wanted to add: i imagined it in a similar way, with her leaving after the mononoke self who wanted to just kill them all got purged (dunno about the version with her suiciding, i would not get how kusuriuri managed to "talk" with an already dead person) the parallel between the masked man and kusuriuri is bugging too this would be a bit odd compared to the previous arcs, where the mononokes got dealt with after they showed some effect, while here it got dealt with before it ended up killing |
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wakka9ca said: OK, this is the most subtle episode I have ever seen in anime.... To the people who watched it or to the people who will watch this episode in the future, I will share with you how I understood the story....(I know it's a bit late, but this episode HAS to be analyzed) So I hope this cleared things up quite a bit.... Thank you very much, that did help and actually made the direction in this show even more exceptional. Great work! |
| My brother and I compose classical and modern music, please click the link below if you're interested. http://thesearethetwins.wordpress.com/ Please check out my profile to see what anime I recommend. Keep pursuing your dreams! ~ Wynn |
| I thought she died too! But the monk survived the exorcism in the previous story, so now I'm thinking it could've been all mental. Who knows? Great episode. |
| The saddest story so far for me. But now I know for sure that I really like this anime! |
| Really interesting case, short but quite good! Especially the ending was quite amazing! Lets see what's next! |
| What a twist! Honestly didn't expect the woman to be a mononoke :o |
| This arc blew my mind, very interesting and very emotional. The crazy nonlinear narrative and visuals, not knowing what was real or what was 'the play', completely hooked me in and worked perfectly in slowly unveiling the truth, especially with all the repetitions. |
| Quite underwhelmed after the sheer brilliance of the first two arcs (and Bakeneko), but it did the job. The direction and visuals weren't as compelling as previous stuff. Not to say it was bad or anything, but the previous arc set the bar sky high. I think woman definitely killed herself though, that was more or less blatantly stated. A Mononoke was born after her death, just like in the first brothel arc. |
wakka9ca said: OK, this is the most subtle episode I have ever seen in anime.... To the people who watched it or to the people who will watch this episode in the future, I will share with you how I understood the story....(I know it's a bit late, but this episode HAS to be analyzed) So I hope this cleared things up quite a bit.... Ooooh. So that's what she meant she said it was herself that she killed (I was thinking something along the lines of killing herself mentally so she can forget whatever it was around her) This definitely cleared up things. Thank you good sir for that wonderful analysis. :) |
| She died but nobody cared :/ |
"May those who accept their fate be granted happiness." "May those who defy their fate be granted glory." |
xiyui said: Thanks, good explanation of what happened. |
insan3priest said: The thing that strikes me is the final scene of The Medicine Seller sitting in the kitchen smoking the same exact pipe as the Masked man, I mean what else could that mean except that it was him in some form? Yes my thoughts exactly, from the beginning i doubted it was him in his golden form so that scene cleared everything up But what i am confused about is whether he helped her in the beginning consciously so that he would discover the form of the mononoke or was he not aware of it until the masked man lost his mask. |
" Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future. " Cloud Atlas |
| I think she killed herself mainly because of this scene: |
| This arc totally got me. I've seen the entire series a dozen times but watched this more than any other arc. But here's the only thing that still bugs me D: |
| I thought that Ochou ran away instead of killing herself. (especially since the husband + everyone else kept expect her to show with more sake) Still, both theories could be what happened, it all depends on how you interpret it. This is probably my favourite arc so far. |
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