Forum:Adding special signs for different user groups

As there has been so much vandalism-only impersonation these days, I propose to add special signs for different user groups. We need to discuss whether we should add a default-on or default-off gadget, which user groups should be included, and which sprites and colors we should use.

My CSS is just for reference: light blue and nether star for bureaucrats, orange and diamond sword for administrators, emerald for directors, cat for CATS, painting for GIM, purple for patrollers, and green for autopatrolled users, such as 👁 Image
Magic 👁 Image
, 👁 Image
MarkusRost 👁 Image
, 👁 Image
Violine1101👁 Image
, FireX420, Rampage455, etc.. Maybe we don't need so many colors and sprites, but I think at least admin sprite would be fine for most editors. --👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 14:51, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I like this idea. One thing: you forgot to put GIM for Markus. -~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  14:58, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Because idk how to put three sprites for one user in CSS lol. I'm not so good at CSS. 👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 15:04, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

That makes sense. Markus has a lot of user rights, does he not? -~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  15:06, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Did you notice that MarkusRost just did this? 👁 Image
Miner(👁 Image
talk 👁 Image
contributions) 14:56, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I mentioned this an hour ago on discord, so he did this so quickly before I post this forum lol. I think we still need to discuss about the details (maybe). 👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 15:02, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I created it as a basis. Icons and colors can still be changed easily. -- 👁 Image
MarkusRost (talk) 15:08, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I like the idea of denoting certain official accounts to combat impersonation accounts, but we probably only need a single symbol or color highlight. I think that it is unlikely that a member of administrator, bureaucrat, CATS, GIM, patroller, or director user groups would try to impersonate another member of one of those groups. A single verification symbol for all of them would probably be sufficient, kind of like how all Weird Gloop staff have the bucket icon next to their names. Rampage455 (talk) 05:14, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

In fact, there are 4 different existing icons for 👁 Image
Weird Gloop staff, 👁 Image
Mojang employee, 👁 Image
Minecraft/Mojang-related contractor employee and 👁 Image
ex-Mojang employee. See Special:PermanentLink/2742983#L-444 to Special:PermanentLink/2742983#L-514. Imo, a single symbol is quite confusing because others may regard all of them as admins with same user rights, but actually not. 👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 06:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

👁 Image
 STRONGLY agree with Rampage455. Regardless of what currently exists for WG, Mojang, Ex-Mojang, and contractors, The purpose of the proposal does not have anything to do with those groups Wilf233 mentioned and has everything to do with the appearance of the community of wiki editors. -BrianGLHF (talk) 18:27, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

I already have this small picture besides names of some persons, what is there to talk about? 2401:4900:A50F:7DC3:0:0:25A4:F144 09:39, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Whether we should use default-on or default-off gadget? --👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 14:51, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

As a proposer, I think default-on would be better, because readers can see this in history page or recent changes without an account, and new users who don't know how to enable gadget, can easily distinguish who is admin or not. --👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 14:51, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

That would be a good idea, because then users can see that other users have certain rights without actually viewing their user rights.-~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  14:58, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I think it would be on. But if some IP editor thinks it's annoying they cannot disable it without creating an account. Still I 👁 Image
 Support on. 👁 Image
Miner(👁 Image
talk 👁 Image
contributions) 15:07, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I currently use color to differentate between redirects and disambiguation pages from existing and non-existant pages. This can be seen in my user CSS page with violet for redirects and orange for disambiguation. Purple and orange for admins and patrollers would make me extremely confused about what type of link it is. This gadget should be enabled for anyone patroller and higher, otherwise it would need to be disabled by default if color indicates user rights. It can be only enabled by default if an alternative method is used to indicate user rights. Delvin4519 (talk) 16:48, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Let's ignore colors since all of the people here oppose. If the gadget only includes sprite, would you prefer default-on or off? 👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 17:20, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Ideally it would be for registered users only (so this would be completely unavailable to non-registered IP users/editors, like with other gadgets and CSS). If possible, it would be enabled by default for some user groups and disabled but still available for other user groups. I'd draw the default-on/default-off line at autopatrol or patroller. If it's not possible then I don't really have a say which way whether it'd go default on or default off for all registered users, as some users can create an account to vandalize and impersonate. Delvin4519 (talk) 17:35, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

👁 Image
 Soft support enabling by default. It's simply a handy gadget, but I only soft support because it could be easily argued that it's just not necessary for everyone to have enabled. - Harristic / Talk 👁 Image
18:22, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

👁 Image
 strongly oppose having it on by default. Seems no one can oppose the entire concept of this gadget since it has been implemented in the middle of a community discussion. -BrianGLHF (talk) 22:22, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Would you please state the reason why you strongly oppose? 👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 02:00, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Editors do not need this gadget on by default. It’s not a tool for them. forcing it on for people that don’t need it just comes across as vanity.

This is not the first time we are forced into a change by Markus that has been in the middle of a discussion before any consensus was reached by the community. And frankly I’m not a fan of this behavior.

Thanks for hearing me out! -BrianGLHF (talk) 05:52, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Actually, Markus had implemented this before I created this forum. It's a very useful tool for editors who view history and recent changes often, especially a language for this large scale and so much impersonation these days, like Special:diff/2742988. AFAIK, Deutsch Wiki is default off, Português, ไทย and 中文 Wiki enforce sprites (except that you write your own CSS). As for vanity, I think they are worth owning this because they have devoted so much to this wiki. Feel free to argue against. I'd like to hear your thoughts. 👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 06:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I’ve already shared my thoughts. Thank you for listening. -BrianGLHF (talk) 06:49, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

IMO we don't need to worry about the premature creation of the gadget, considering that it currently is off by default. If people want to differentiate the roles, they can, but are not forced at all. It was convenient of Markus to have made it so quickly as soon as you talked about it on discord. He's fast and great. After all, we're discussing it now, aren't we? - Jack McKalling (talk) 08:33, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't disagree that he's fast or good at wrenching on the wiki. We have a sandbox to test these things in advance while having discussions of how the community wants them to be on the website if they even want them at all. I would hate to see any sort of trend of the community participation being sidestepped. Thanks Jack! -BrianGLHF (talk) 18:54, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

“Forced into a change” it is an optional gadget, zero change has happened for any user that does not actively want the change. - Harristic / Talk 👁 Image
12:47, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

This topic is about enabling the gadget by default and which icons to use. But it will remain a gadget either way so as to not force it on everyone. Gadgets are specifically made so that users can individually enable or disable them. -- 👁 Image
MarkusRost (talk) 13:03, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I understand how gadgets work in this manner. The topic is "Default-on or default-off gadget?" and my answer is "Off". Thank you! -BrianGLHF (talk) 18:54, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

👁 Image
 Support – I don't see any downside, really. GIM Dianliang233 T C 15:00, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

👁 Image
 Oppose having the gadget enabled by default, though I have no issues the other way around. It places too much emphasis on users with these elevated rights in my opinion by making their edits stand out in recent changes and page history, although it's currently a bit better compared to some other implementations since there's no change to the font color or style. –⁠Sonicwave ^talk 21:45, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

What should we do due to recent massive impersonation? What's your opinion and solution? 👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 02:21, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Active patrollers can still enable the gadget to tell who has roles and who doesn't. Also, any active editor dealing with vandalism may become targets of impersonation; I doubt they're targeting editors with the patroller role in particular, although that may be possible for admins. –⁠Sonicwave ^talk 21:46, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

For active patrollers, at least for me, the gadget we are currently discussing is far from my demand. For example, I need to know who are autopatrolled users in recent changes so as not to patrol again, who are directors without autopatrol rights so as to patrol interwiki links quickly, who are real admins and CATS dealing with vandalism and who are fake ones. The reason why my CSS must contain colors because a user can be in several different user groups, with no hierarchy among them, such as autopatrolled user and director at the same time.

What's more, patrollers are experienced users. They are not easy to be confused with impersonation (at most 5 seconds' hesitation, maybe). Most of the patrollers are able to write their own CSS as well. Therefore, the main advantage of default-on is for unexperienced users, that they can easily know who is admin or not when edits are reverted or take a look at page history and recent changes.

Finally, I want to point out that we are discussing a gadget for most editors, not for patrollers. 👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 02:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Changing status to 👁 Image
 Oppose per Sonicwave. -~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  21:56, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Which user groups should be included? --👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 14:51, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

As a proposer, I think only bureaucrats, administrators, CATS, and GIM would be OK because they hold important user rights compared with other user groups. --👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 14:51, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree again here, because these are most often impersonated. But it might be useful to tell who is a patroller, for example. -~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  14:58, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I think same as wilf + patrollers and directors (maybe also bots?) 👁 Image
Miner(👁 Image
talk 👁 Image
contributions) 15:10, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree. Patrollers are very important, and it's be nice to have an obvious indicator of a bot edit. -~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  15:19, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

GIM, CATS, admins and crats should definitely be included. Unsure about bots, on RC they already have the bot flag so you gain less from them, though it might be useful with collapsed RC and in page history. If we want to add patrollers or directors as well, those probably shouldn't be icons anymore as that would get confusing. The groups also don't provide enough permissions to require a clear highlighting for new users. Having different link colors for them might be useful though. -- 👁 Image
MarkusRost (talk) 15:23, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I would include patrollers, directors, admin, bureaucrats, CATS, and GIM. I can't use color since I already use it for finding links to disambiguation and redirect pages. Delvin4519 (talk) 16:52, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Just noticed some of the comments mention bot roles as well, so appending my comment to include bot role as well. IMO it's still useful for collapsed page history like as Markus mentioned, so it'd be best to get the most for a single buck and include 'em all. Delvin4519 (talk) 17:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I would strongly prefer that we do not include directors. It is a role that exists to note that a user has important rights on a different language, but on this language they are practically just a regular editor, as their only notable rights are editing director locked pages, which very few directors utilise anyway. There are also 72 directors (give or taken one or two, might've miscounted), that's a ton of users with a flashy icon by their name. I am neutral on giving patrollers an icon, they have very little additional rights but patroller is at least a role granted so a user can help more with this wiki, not with a different wiki. Bureaucrats, administrators, CATS, and GIM should of course be given icons, they're of clear importance. - Harristic / Talk 👁 Image
18:22, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

There are 169 pages on English Wiki that only directors are able to edit, including main page, FPv, etc. Don't you think it's important rights? 👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 05:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd prefer for bureaucrats to just use the admin icon, similar to how they just have the admin role on Discord instead of a separate role. They don't have much additional permissions over admins (which are infrequently used) and otherwise behave like regular admins instead of being tiered above them, so it seems confusing and unnecessary to give them a different highlight.

I'm also against giving directors or patrollers icons for similar reasons, they don't have significant permissions on the English wiki and aren't seen as elevated like other roles. I can see patrollers being a potential target for impersonation by vandals, but the same can happen to other active editors. I do think it makes sense for bots to be indicated to make them stand out in page history, however. –⁠Sonicwave ^talk 22:06, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

How about bureaucrats use 👁 Image
Netherite Sword if admins were to use 👁 Image
Diamond Sword to reflect the similar statuses of admins and bureaucrats then? That way we can still differentiate between admins and bureaucrats. Delvin4519 (talk) 22:25, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

What about enchanted diamond sword for Bureaucrat? It makes it a lot more subtle. -~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  22:27, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

👁 Image
 Oppose since it would mean an animated sprite, which would be a distraction. Stick to static sprites only. The wiki removed rotating animations of block variants from infoboxes a while back ago. Delvin4519 (talk) 22:31, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I see. -~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  22:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

That'd be better than completely different icons, I also like Violine's guardian suggestion below which is even more subtle. –⁠Sonicwave ^talk 22:49, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree, bureaucrat doesn't provide enough permissions to require an unique icon. Having them just use the normal administrator icon would be enough. -- 👁 Image
MarkusRost (talk) 22:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

👁 Image
 Oppose having bureaucrats using the same icon as administrators. The gadget is intended to help tell apart user groups. If there is no need to differerentiate between admins and bureaucrats, then a user can just disable the gadget. The use of swords to indicate admins means that similar roles can use other variants of swords, since swords have 6 different variants in game. Bureaucrats can just use an alternative sword variant as the icon. Delvin4519 (talk) 22:23, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

👁 Image
 Oppose per Delvin. 👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 02:56, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Regarding Delvin's comment, I think that maybe we can use tiers of pickaxe for different user groups. -~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  22:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

It's only necessary in instances when the roles are too similar. Bureaucrats and Admins are extremely similar, but all the other user roles are signficantly different. Delvin4519 (talk) 23:05, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Point taken, but it was just an idea :) -~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  23:19, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

What sprite or color we should use? --👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 14:51, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

As a proposer, I think 👁 Image
nether star for bureaucrats means they are the most experienced (as nether star is uneasy to get in Minecraft) and can represent the wiki (star means generals), 👁 Image
diamond sword for administrators means they are fighting against vandalism and spam, 👁 Image
cat for CATS is same in name, and 👁 Image
paintings for GIM means interface. I don't think a different color is so necessary for most editors. --👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 14:51, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I think signs should be GIM because they actually have interfaces in game. And they're more well known. -~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  15:08, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Sign is a good idea, well-known and easy to understand.--👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 17:30, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I mostly agree here. However, it'd be a problem if we used green as a text color because that could be mistaken for a redirect link with the green redirect gadget on. -~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  14:58, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

For context, the basic gadget I created right now uses the following icons and no text colors:

• 👁 ItemSprite brush.png: Sprite image for brush in Minecraft
  GIM
• 👁 EntitySprite cat.png: Sprite image for cat in Minecraft
  CATS
• 👁 ItemSprite nether-star.png: Sprite image for nether-star in Minecraft
  Bureaucrats
• 👁 ItemSprite diamond-sword.png: Sprite image for diamond-sword in Minecraft
  Admins
• 👁 EntitySprite iron-golem.png: Sprite image for iron-golem in Minecraft
  Bots

CATS, crats and admins follow the reasoning by Wilf above. Brush for GIM for cleaning up the wiki skin, I felt like paintings are harder to connect to what the group does for new users (are they uploading the renders?). Iron golem for bots because robot. Weird Gloop and Mojang staff already have icons directly through MediaWiki:Common.css#L-444. I didn't use text colors, because getting those to have proper contrast to the background, other text and on both themes can be quite difficult. -- 👁 Image
MarkusRost (talk) 15:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I would suggest either 👁 Image
Paper, or 👁 Image
Globe to represent the director role. Paper has the least contrast on light mode so it reflects the limited role of directors well, and some (not all) directors are wiki representatives on the MCW Board. 👁 Image
Night Vision is good to represet the patroller role since patrollers can only check edits (or rollback). Delvin4519 (talk) 17:22, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I support iron golem, but I don't prefer brush because it looks like emm, garbage cleaning...? --👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 17:30, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Doesn't it. I agree. -~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  23:20, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Let's not have colors. Icons are already enough. People have different opinions on which colors to use and there's all the color contrast and color blindness accessibility issues we have to deal with. GIM Dianliang233 T C 16:00, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

👁 Image
 oppose color since I need color to differenate between redirects and disambiguation from existing and non-existing pages. Use a alternative non-color method for this purpose. Delvin4519 (talk) 16:49, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I vote for no colours, and the current icons in the gadget are fine. Colours interfere with a lot of stuff, including visited links as well. And if patrollers need one too, I'd weakly suggest a stone sword, since patrollers have rollback rights. They (including me) can do somewhat more than regular users but our actions don't "stick" like bans. Alternatively, you could use the Mace for the admins, since it resembles a ban hammer. More specific than just the sword for the fighting. - Jack McKalling (talk) 17:08, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Mace is a very good idea, a new weapen in Minecraft and is often used in discord channel. As for patrollers, I'd recommend a 👁 Image
shield because rollback is more like defense. --👁 Image
Wilf233_zhMCW（论·功） 17:30, 7 November 2024 (UTC) (Last edited on 17:31, 7 November 2024 (UTC))

The context of shields are too similar to swords so there's a bit too much overlap here. MarkusRost mentioned that including directors and patrollers would get confusing with too many icons. IMO it'd be better to stick to the night vision icon I suggested above for the patroller role. The context of night vision is distinct enough that it's reasonable to tell it apart and reflects the more limited permissions of patrollers. They can't delete pages or block users on the English wiki. Delvin4519 (talk) 17:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

No, night vision has nothing to do with patrollers. I suggested the stone sword, because a patroller is essentially an extraction of the admin role and they already have a diamond one. Although the mace is better, but regardless of which one the admin would get, the stone sword fits the patroller both ways. A lesser form of what the admin does/has (much less). Heck, go for a wooden sword, even. - Jack McKalling (talk) 18:25, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

It's not about the effect of night vision, it's about the usability of the icon sprites themselves. In my mind, an "eye" icon sprite represents the idea that the user is watching, which is representative of the patroller role overseeing recent changes and marking edits as patrolled and rolling back problematic edits, which is all the permissions a patroller has.

If the idea is to use 2 sword sprites for 2 different user roles, then the roles are not differentiated enough. I could maybe maybe see wooden sword and mace for patroller and admin, since the two sprites are the furthest apart as they can get, but I think we should aim for a little bit more differntiation than that, which is why 👁 Image
Night Vision is preferable for patrollers. Delvin4519 (talk) 21:50, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I think stone swords look kind of... boring. What about an iron one? -~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  23:25, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd rather have no unique colours, I think it'd make things messy. The sprites should already stick out enough considering they'll be the only images on the entire page (RC and history). I completely don't mind what sprites we use as long as they make sense. - Harristic / Talk 👁 Image
18:22, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

👁 Image
 Oppose colors like everyone else. -~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  23:23, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Some other sprites that could be good:

👁 BlockSprite pale-oak-sign.png: Sprite image for pale-oak-sign in Minecraft
GIM

👁 EntitySprite cat.png: Sprite image for cat in Minecraft
CATS

👁 EntitySprite axolotl.png: Sprite image for axolotl in Minecraft
👁 EntitySprite dolphin.png: Sprite image for dolphin in Minecraft
👁 BlockSprite conduit.png: Sprite image for conduit in Minecraft
👁 BlockSprite beacon.png: Sprite image for beacon in Minecraft
Bureaucrats (they give positive effects like crats give user rights)

👁 EntitySprite elder-guardian.png: Sprite image for elder-guardian in Minecraft
Admins (they guard ocean monuments like admins guard the wiki)

👁 ItemSprite book-and-quill.png: Sprite image for book-and-quill in Minecraft
Patrollers (they write down the patrolled edits) 👁 Image
Miner(👁 Image
talk 👁 Image
contributions) 07:02, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Some ideas from the German wiki: we have 👁 EntitySprite guardian.png: Sprite image for guardian in Minecraft
Administrator and 👁 EntitySprite elder-guardian.png: Sprite image for elder-guardian in Minecraft
Bureaucrat. For patrollers, 👁 EntitySprite pillager.png: Sprite image for pillager in Minecraft
might work (pillagers are patrollers in-game). | violine1101 ^(talk) 11:51, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I like those suggestions, the guardians are variants of each other reflecting the similarity of admins and bureaucrats, and suggest that they're watching over the wiki. The mob icons are also in my opinion a bit more fitting than item and tool sprites. –⁠Sonicwave ^talk 22:49, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I feel like it should be said that the sword for admins makes it fell a bit like they are... dangerous? Therefore, 👁 Image
 Oppose Sword icon for admins. -~- Nerdyguy2000   Talk   Edits  02:49, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

👁 Image
 strongly oppose colors as per Dianliang233 and Rampage445 -BrianGLHF (talk) 18:08, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

👁 Image
 strongly oppose different icons per group. Since the purpose as proposed is to aid in the ability to thwart impersonation by identification, only one single icon should be used to cover all groups. It should be something as simple and modest as a checkmark, dot, square or triangle with no variations of the symbol between groups as that would aid in the vanity aspect that I and others are concerned about but still allow for validation at a glance and resolve the issue this proposal looks to solve. This method was raised earlier by Rampage445 and I completely agree with this. -BrianGLHF (talk) 18:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC)